Framework Laptop 16

Framework 16 owner here, had mine for a year and a half. While most of this post is also true in my experience, I just don’t care. These are largely small cosmetic nitpicks that you need to look for to notice. The only complaints here that I really share are the jankiness of the spacers (a little jarring at first, but now I’m used to it), and the speakers really are noticeably worse than any of my other devices. So? I don’t watch movies on it, or listen to music, that’s what I have a TV and headphones for. Seems inarguable that you can get a much more “premium” laptop for about the same cost. But I didn’t buy a framework for a “premium” feel… I was hoping to buy the last laptop I’ll ever need. And so far I’m happy with the result! PS: the battery life is by far the best of any laptop I’ve owned. Maybe that just shows that my previous ones were junk, but I’m quite happy with it PPS: I should note my employer was willing to buy it for me, so price was much less of a concern. Not everyone is so lucky ofc

I'm just one datapoint, but my Framework 16 (bought a little over a year ago with no OS, has only ever had Linux installed on it) has never given me trouble with firmware updates. I've updated the BIOS twice, and other firmware, all through `fwupdmgr` with no issues. I bought the AMD chip rather than Intel, it's possible that that was why I had no issues, but I don't actually know.

I really want this to be true but for me its not close. Maybe its better on the new 13 but its still night and day between my mac book and my FW 16 that's about a year old. My macbook works for days without a charge. My FW last maybe 6-8 hours on battery. Don't get me wrong. I do really enjoy my FW but the mac hardware is still number one for me. I'd really love is an ARM based FW. Though if I could wave a magic wand it would be mac hardware running pure linux with no caveats. I really love seeing what Asahi is building

>gladly just buy another one. I'm not going to weigh in on quality issues (I have had a 16 for a little over a year and it's been great, but it probably gets far less abuse the way I use it than average), but I'm surprised to hear this because the whole point of Framework is that when something breaks you don't need to "buy another one". You just buy the specific part that broke. Chassis warped? Buy the top/bottom/whatever part of it is warped. Hinges worn out? Replace just those, etc. The kind of person who is happy to just buy a new one when a particular component breaks seems like the kind of person who would probably prefer to buy something else, or so I would have supposed. I very much like the modularity, upgradability, and repairability, but those things come with tradeoffs, and if one isn't the kind of person who is interested in repairing a computer piecemeal, I'm not sure I understand why one would accept the tradeoffs. I like Framework, I like their mission, and I intend to continue to support them as a customer (I'll likely buy the new wireless keyboard as soon as it's in stock), but my intention is to never buy another complete laptop from them again, unless I for some reason decide I need to have 2 laptops. It may be that in a decade or two, I have Ship-of-Theseused my 16 into an entirely new laptop, but I can't imagine the scenario where I replace the entire thing in one go.

I have a 13" one for 2 years and a 16" for close to 6 months. I love them both and I will likely only upgrade these and never by a complete new laptop. The 13 is amazing for the go, lightweight and comfortable. The 16 is great for me for general use, because I don't work at a table, so the larger screen makes a big difference. I recommend the AMD one, that performs better for me(my 13 is Intel). I have 2 articles about them on my blog if you are curious: https://greg.molnar.io/blog/framework-laptop/ https://greg.molnar.io/blog/framework-16-first-impression/ And if you have any specific questions, I am happy to answer.

I am running it on the Framework 13 and 16. Both are awesome devices, but I'm partial to the 16. Beautiful screen, great keyboard, and I can easily swap in an NVIDIA card when I want. Battery life isn't the best in this beast. I'd love to try a Dell Panther Lake laptop and may end up with one in the near future. DHH reports Apple Silicon-ish battery life.

The 16 I have clears the low low bar gaming laptops have set. My previous laptop was an ASUS G14 and it didn't even take two years for huge problems to appear - particularly throttling. Also the very last firmware update absolutely destroyed power management, making it idle at a crazy 20W. The keyboard in my Framework is weak and I had to replace it, but other components are doing well.

Why do people keep comparing Apples to Bananas (pun intended)? To be clear: These two are based on completely different system architectures. Ofcourse performance is different, and probably in favor of Apple. Especially because everything running on top of Apple Silicon is heavily optimized from the get-go to do so (due to hardcore system level optimization by the build chain and kernel engineering groups at Apple). If you want a excellent quasi open and self repairable/modifiable laptop running Linux there's probably nothing better on the market than a Framework laptop. But I might be a little bit biased because my main system is a Framework 16 running Gentoo with OpenRC. I can do everything I want with it including local AI, since the 6.x kernel series - including AMD NPU support - was released to stable, and AMD creating a excellent runtime to serve local AI models through AMD NPUs and GPUs called Lemonade ( https://lemonade-server.ai/ ) a little while back.

I have a 12 and the screen is fine. It's no OLED but I have no complaints for what it is. I love it as a secondary tablet-laptop for drawing and reading comics (primary laptop is a Framework 16 which I'm also in love with for Unity3D game dev and similar tasks, that one needs Windows for Visual Studio but I'm enjoying Gentoo on the 12)

If you're price conscious, buy the self-assembled framework kit. It's fun and takes half an hour to assemble. I got a framework 16 with a handful of upgrades for $1400. I added 96GB of RAM purchased separately for $300 (before the shortage). I also got a 4TB NVMe for $300. What do those upgrades cost cost in a macbook? I think most people care more about their OS than their hardware specs, so they defend their purchase like it's part of their identity and it's hard to have a rational discussion. Edit: If you're talking about the Intel model, I agree with you. The Ryzens are fantastic.

Pepperidge Farms, oops I mean Framework, remembers. Bought this Framework 16 laptop less than a year ago so I haven't upgraded anything yet. But if I decide I want a GPU (I don't play games on this laptop so I bought it GPU-less) I can add one. If they come out with a new motherboard that I decide is worth buying, I can swap it out and keep the rest of the laptop. And I can customize all six of the side ports at any time; they're hot-swappable. Currently I have three USB-C slots, one USB-A for when I need a thumbdrive, one HDMI, and one SD card reader slot. I bought a second USB-A slot and an Ethernet slot, so if I need two USB-A ports or if I need to plug into Ethernet, I can just slide the physical locking tab on the appropriate side of the laptop, slide out one of the slots, and slide in the Ethernet or USB-A slot. Then relock the tab so the expansion slot fillers are physically held in place and I can carry on. No rebooting needed, but now I have two USB-C ports and two USB-A. Or three USB-C, no USB-A, and one Ethernet. Whatever configuration I need at the moment. It's great. I currently don't have any plans to buy a new laptop in the near future (my wife's laptop is just two years old and has plenty of life left in it), but next time I need a new laptop, I plan to buy a Framework again. P.S. No affiliation with Framework, just a customer.

I've just finished the base install of Gentoo on my brand new Framework 16 and I still wonder why I didn't make the move sooner. Hardware: HX370, 128G RAM, Radeon 860M iGPU, Radeon RX7700S dGPU, Xbox Wireless Cntroller, 2T + 8T SSD storage Software (as of today, still making additions and refinements): Gentoo/OpenRC (I don't like systemd), Kernel 6.12.58 with additional module for the Xbox controller, Pipewire+EasyEffects 8, KDE Plasma 6.5.4/Wayland, Steam Experience: KDE runs pretty stable, and only has the things I really need (and not the things a vendor thinks I need). The first game I benchmarked today was Doom (2016), which runs smoothly on 90-120 fps on high settings. The second game I benchmarked today was Indiana Jones and the Great Circle (2024) running on ~56fps on recommended settings on the 7700. The one game I tried today and could not get to run properly was Stalker 2: Heart of Chernobyl. I suspect that, given the many positives on ProtonDB, that's mainly either a configuration or Proton issue. I'll do some more research and give it another try in the near future. Right now performance drops to 5 fps immediately after starting a new game, and the CPU running on 600Mhz maximum when starting the game on Proton Experimental. For now I am quite happy with the results, and the fact that I likely finally am able to eject Windows out of my life.

Screens are dramatically better than a few years ago and have been advancing if you care about and shop for the feature. Trackpads are slowly sucking less. Most people only see this in MacBook Pros, but the other manufacturers have excellent screens that are often hidden behind customization options and complex models/branding. I have a framework and love it, but it’s a computer made for a specific purpose that doesn’t align with most people. That’s ok - Dell makes like 500 different let laptops and Framework has a totally different proposition.

Some people around me prolesytize these modern Macbooks endlessly but I don't quite get it. I've tried them but I still love my Framework 16 to bits and I'd take it any day of the week. The Macbooks are great machines, and one thing I can say in their favor is the battery life is phenomenal, but I prefer my Framework's aesthetics and feel - it feels more like I'm holding something I've worked on and made my own vs just bought, I prefer the shiny metal over the dull gray of the Macbooks, the keyboard and trackpad are just as good (and I love the rgb pad I have in place of a numpad), and taking it apart/replacing modules just feels so cool . I've also saved those friends various times by lending an expansion card, usually usb-A.

All of the complaints you had are extremely reasonable reasons to not want the Framework 16 (or any Framework). While I personally am quite happy with mine, I very much believe that it is not for everyone, and in fact has quite a niche audience. That being said, most of your complaints should have been obvious from viewing images or reading any of the numerous reviews. So yes, I agree with the GP comment that you seem to have bought the computer without knowing what you wanted and/or what the Framework offered/was. Being more expensive, heavier, and worse "fit and finish" is pretty much the tradeoff for upgradeability and repairability. Not everyone values those things to the same degree, and deciding that those tradeoffs are not worth it is completely reasonable. I just don't understand how you could get wind up buying one without knowing those were the tradeoffs you were making. I've read almost every one of these complaints in previous reviews. It's not exactly a secret.

> overpriced, underpowered plastic hunks of shit which are an absolute pain to even buy, let alone deal with. Absolute nonsense, my FW16 has been fantastic. No hardware trouble at all to speak of in my years owning it. Looks cool, works great, solid construction. Ordering was a breeze. I love everything about the experience of buying and owning this laptop.

I wish I didn't have to optimize the Framework battery myself. Buying an SSD and RAM that uses less power when idling helped, a handful of settings helped, but then I realized, this laptop is near perfect, and it stands out even more that I have to compensate for lack of a power management setup out of the box. It was early for Framework though, and it otherwise ran flawlessly. I hope battery power management can be a first class citizen on Framework one day soon. The rest is so solid and I wish Framework sustainability for a long, long time. For now, I need my laptop to be invisible so I can do what I need.

In order: Nothing is stopping you from buying a used Framework. Admittedly, the market is much smaller than for refurbished Thinkpads, but it's smaller on both sides (demand and supply), I found several both on Frameworks own community marketplace and on ebay. And considering the fact that after you buy the first one, you will re-use the chassis and other, non-mainboard components across at least a few upgrades, I actually still think that a framework is the correct "environmental" decision. Plus, if I were to buy a used/refurbed Framework, I would be _supremely_ confident that if some sub-component of it came broken (or broke shortly after purchase), that I would be able to get the laptop as a whole up and running and not need to ewaste the whole thing. Price-to-performance. This is true....the first time you buy the laptop. On subsquent upgrades, you are not paying the full price of the laptop, but only the mainaboard. Over a few upgrade cycles, the framework comes down _significantly_ in price. This is, in fact, close to the entire point of framework. I can't speak to support. I have had no issues with my 16. I've heard stories in both directions (very good and very bad support). I guess I will say that it is reasonable to be more skeptical about the level of support one will receive from a new company wit a very small team.